Episode 18: “Peter Pan” by Patty Griffin with Kim Caldwell
10/24/2024 | 48m - Latest episode
It’s bangarang, Dear Listeners, as we leave Neverland with Patty Griffin’s “Peter Pan,” brought by whole human woman and this episode's guest Kim Caldwell. A wistful but firm examination of lovingly leaving what we’ve outgrown, the discussion covers the art that gives us clear directions in life, the hard truth that believing isn’t enough to make something real, and the feeling of deeply comforting melancholy. Also, we all agree that Peter Pan does not have an email address but Captain Hook does have an Only Fans.
This Episode's Guest
Kim Caldwell is a whole human woman based in Austin, Texas doing her best to build a meaningful career, learn about everything interesting, enjoy all the people and animals she loves, and complete her NYT Games before they disappear. She experiences much of life through pop culture references, but also writes, crafts, and extemporaneously sings her own contributions to mankind. She is madly in love with her partner Scott, doing her best to model human behavior for her daughters, and has implemented a new one-in, one-out rule on mammals after blending families led to eight pets in her home. She is 100% related to a host of this podcast.
Amy's Show Notes
Data is a sentient and self aware android with a “positronic” brain first introduced in Star Trek: The Next Generation. He appears in all but one of the episodes in the series, has a pet cat named Spot, and as we learn in episode three “The Naked Now” IS fully functional.
What Amy is reading - Iron Kissed (Mercy Thompson, #3) by Patricia Briggs: https://www.patriciabriggs.com/books/
There are 14 books in series to date
Other Amy rereads include Terry Pratchett’s Discworld, the October Daye Books by Seanan McGuire, the Locked Tomb series by Tamsyn Muir, and the Scorched Grace series by Margot Douaihy.
What Kate is reading - The Dark Queens: The Bloody Rivalry That Forged the Medieval World by Shelley Puhak
Based on this interview, the proper pronunciation is “Poo-hak”: https://youtu.be/CPTelFarqWg
The Merovingian dynasty was a ruling lineage of Franks from 476–750 AD, often considered the first kings (or in this instance, queens) of France.
The proper pronunciation of Brunhilde: https://www.howtopronounce.com/brunhilde
The proper pronunciation of Fredegunde: https://www.howtopronounce.com/fredegunde
Meet this week’s guest, Kim Caldwell: Kim is a whole human woman based in Austin, Texas doing her best to build a meaningful career, learn about everything interesting, enjoy all the people and animals she loves, and complete her NYT Games before they disappear. She experiences much of life through pop culture references, but also writes, crafts, and extemporaneously sings her own contributions to mankind. She is madly in love with her partner Scott, doing her best to model human behavior for her daughters, and has implemented a new one-in, one-out rule on mammals after blending families led to eight pets in her home. She is 100% related to a host of this podcast.
Austin, TX is known for its allergies, which are less of a season and more of a year round deal, so much that the University of Texas posted a guide for new students on how to navigate: https://uthealthaustin.org/blog/austin-allergy-madness
M. Night Shyamalan is an American filmmaker known for his “twist” endings, which have been ranked by a number of outlets:
Our last episode was Episode 17: “Becoming, Part 1” from Buffy the Vampire Slayer by Joss Whedon with Kate Caldwell. The synopsis reads:
Buckle up, Dear Listeners, we’re headed to Sunnydale for our first (but certainly not last) official episode on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The conversation explores what the show means to Kate and Amy, living through big moments of change, working to offer others the grace we’ve received, and managing the oppositional truths that arise when something you love was written by a real asshole.
The prefrontal cortex, located in the anterior section of the frontal lobes, is responsible for much of the higher cognition thought to “make us guman” including attention, inhibition, emotion, complex learning, and theory-of-mind processing and the full understanding of consequences. At times refered to as the “personality center,” it is one of the last areas of the brain to develop, reaching full maturity around age 25.
The song Peter Pan was first released as the closing track on Patty Griffin’s 1998 album Flaming Red. A live version appears on her 2003 album “A Kiss in Time.”
Patty Griffin is an American folk singer singwriter originally from Maine. Discovered in the Boston coffee shop circuit in the 1990s, her first a,bum “Living With Ghosts” was released in 1996. She moved to Austin, TX in 1997 and has spent the past few decades as part of the local (and national) music scene. A notable musician in her own right, her songs have also been performed by Emmylou Harris, Kelly Clarkson, Bette Midler and The Chicks.
An archetype for youthful innocence, boastfulness and carelessness as well as escapism, Peter Pan was created by Scottish novelist and playwright J. M. Barrie. The "the boy who wouldn't grow up,” he is thought to be based on both the Llewelyn Davies boys, who were Barrie’s neighbors, as well as Barrie’s older brother David who died before his 14th birthday and who his family referred to as “forever a boy.” Peter Pan lives in Narnia with his fairie friend Tinkerbell and leads the Lost Boys, a band of other boys who were lost by their parents. His main adversary is Captain Hook, a pirate captian who lost his hand to Peter in combat which was then eaten by a saltwater crocodile.
Type 1 diabetes is a chronic autoimmune condition that results in the nody’s inability to produce a sufficient amount of insulin. It was once called juvenile diabetes, as it often presents in children, teens and young adults.
Chickenshit is a colloquial term that dates back to 1929s and can be used as a noun or adjective, often meaning cowardly.
The movie Hook is a 1991 fantasy adventure film directed by Steven Spielberg and starring Robin Williams as a middle aged version of Peter Pan, Dustin Hoffman as Captain Hook, Julia Roberts as Tinkerbell, Maggie Smith as Wendy, and BOB HOSKINS as Smee!
Rufio was a character created for this story played by Dante Basco who was definitely like, lead cutie for the film. He stepped up to be the leader of the Lost Boys after Peter decided to leave Neverland.
You can watch the now iconic food fight here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N-a72jEFh0
Bangarang is the rallying cry of the Lost Boys in the movie - apparently it means “chaos” in Jamaican patois
Break ups are really difficult, with real world physiological and emotional impacts, but apparently science can help? https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/01/13/376804930/breaking-up-is-hard-to-do-but-science-can-help
But do notice in this piece, while they attribute a lot to science, it’s often art and language that give us the tools to get through.
Fondly dates back to the Middle English period. Now pretty much defined as “with love or great affection” it does have an archaic meaning of “in a foolish manner” which I think can perhaps apply here as well.
Invisible labor is a term coined by Arlene Kaplan Daniels in the 1980s to refer to the concept of the unseen, unvalued or undervalued, or dismissed labor - often expected and performed by women - done to make a household or office run smoothly.
So, ostriches don’t actually stick their heads in the ground to defend themselves. Their first defense is to run. If that doesn’t work, they have powerful legs with four-inch claws that they use to kick their attacker. Which is no joke, because they are basically dinosaurs. The pervasive myth of burying their heads in the sand dates back to ancient Rome.
You can listen - and add to - a playlist of songs mentioned in or inspired by this episode at the “Stop Stealing My Life” playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/42c4Tl9P9RpoUSskIu4tv2?si=88f7ef2b56d5403b&pt=654babbe8bf026a6a21e97056b1aa27a
The Dead Presidents Club is a play by Larry L. King first staged in 1996 by Austin Playhouse. The version that Kim saw was a 2003 revival by the same company, and you can read a review from that time here: https://www.austinchronicle.com/arts/2003-06-13/163627/
Saudade is a Portuguese and Galician term used in literature and music that has no exact translation in English, but amonst the many meanings includes pleasing melancholy, or nostalgia for something that has not happened or will never happen again. Portuguese writer Manuel de Melo defines it as “a pleasure you suffer, an ailment you enjoy.” You can read musings on the word by writer and editor Katy Kelleher here: https://katykelleher.com/2016/10/05/a-perfect-word-for-that-good-kind-of-melancholy/
Obfuscate means to make unclear or unintelligible, and can also mean to throw into shadow.
Cardinal directions are the four main points of a compass - north, south, east, and west - with intermediate directions being those that sit in between.
Kim says “Hey Peter Pan, I’m going home now” ten times in this podcast, Amy says it once.
You can add your own saudade (or pleasingly melancholy) songs to the “Stop Stealing My Life” playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/42c4Tl9P9RpoUSskIu4tv2?si=88f7ef2b56d5403b&pt=654babbe8bf026a6a21e97056b1aa27a
Request a recommendation on a selection of writing picked by Kate and Amy just for you: https://www.findinggoodbones.com/contact
Join Drew Allen and Anne Hurst in supporting the podcast at https://www.patreon.com/FindingGoodBones